Welcome to Raising St. Paul, a new online site dedicated to public input on development topics related to Saint Paul, Minnesota.

Friday, April 20, 2012



This site has received nearly 1,500 visitors so far.  Many questions have been asked and helpful input given about reusing the Gillette building for baseball and additional uses as suggested on this site.

These two  illustrations incorporate three of them: the ballfield's outfield wall should have angles rather than be curved and show the distances to hit homeruns.  Also, although the Velodrome concept is a phase two plan, there is curiousity as to how it might be ereceted above the CCLRT building - the second illustration is one proposal. 

25 comments:

Owen up on Summit Hill said...

Nice Job.

Grand Avenue Betsy said...

This continues to amaze... great ideas!

Dave said...

Your not in touch... your not in the real world you missed the meeting

Nancy McCue said...

As always Bill Hosko is way ahead of the game. It’s wonderful and I hope it works out for the city of Saint Paul.

Nancy,

Bill Hosko in downtown said...

A recent proponent of the multi-use plan suggested an indoor ice rink. This would perhaps be best on the lowest level next to the suggested fitness facility.

Building columns are close to 25'apart, this could work for a public rink, but not for a practice rink for the WILD. Although structurally as with the Velodrome realistic changes are possible.

If perhaps three columns that would be in the middle of a smaller 50'x100' rink were removed it may be possible to put in three large I beams spanning the rink that are placed upon new larger perimeter columns.

Tom D said...

There is an ice skating rink, beautiful really, in the old Milwaukee depot in downtown Minneapolis. It is open seasonally November to March. It would be great to see one open all year in downtown St Paul.

Tom D on the eastside

Patrick J Driscoll said...

I think that for the city to consider anything other than a multi-use building, would be a theft of the taxpayer's money. With Artist showplaces, Cafes, Maybe the idea of a miniature golf course on the roof, and a space to bring the Model Railroad museum back downtown, there should be no question as to the best use of the Gillette building and the taxpayers money.

Dr. Seth C. Hawkins said...

As a nationally acknowledged expert on baseball ballpark design I have been asked to evaluate Bill Hosko’s schematic architectural plan for a minor league ballpark in St. Paul’s Lowertown. This design incorporates the closed Gillette facility, rather than demolishes it, as part of a combined ballpark and large scale amphitheater. Phase two includes a Velodrome.

My analysis incorporates Hosko’s recent revisions of outfield dimensions and angles to bring the plan into conformity with requirements for new minor league facilities stipulated by Major League Baseball’s (MLB) Standards and Practices committee. These requirements should be observed even though the anticipated primary tenant is not a franchise affiliated with MLB.

It is gratifying to report that Hosko’s designs are not only thorough and practical, but are more advanced and more responsible than even several newer Major League facilities (such as Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Arlington (TX) and the thoroughly misguided revisions in Kansas City). It is also a counterintuitive surprise to discover that Bill has never previously designed a professional baseball facility, because he has done significantly better work than several veteran ballpark architects.

Dr. Seth C. Hawkins

Richard B in Lowertown said...

Hey Pat,

Saying the city is wanting to engage in theft of taxpayer money if they don't support a mulit-use facility is too harsh. A stand alone ballpark that has gallery exhibit areas would do well enough.

You are right in other respects. St. Paul too often seems to think something is better then nothing. This is too bad.

Phil Lee said...

We have a condo at Lowry.. I do agree with most of these creative ideas, but my problem with this one is that I don't think the city will do it and something needs to happen in Lowertown and the plan that is in place would be a lot better than nothing. The Lowry is a second home and we have not been up here for a few months. I am very concerned about the trend that I see in St. Paul. I think downtown is in decline and it needs a shot in the arm, not the perfect plan.
You asked for input, that's mine.

Richard B in Lowertown said...

Phil, The sadness is the 'something is better than nothing' grasp upon downtown. Why why why? We need a culture change and guts from city hall...

Lowertown Artist said...

The art crawl is this weekend, it would be good if an environment is created where Lowertown developed a reputation as a 12 month place to view and buy art.

I have been to the Kentucky Artisan Center mentioned in the presentation here, if Kentucky can do it so can Minnesota's Capital city.

How about Omaha? Yea I know Omaha. They DO have a historic district like Lowertown that is a real tourist destination. So much potential here.

Ben Blomgren said...

The majority owner of the Saints, Marvin Goldklang, owns a minority stake in the Yankees and at least three other class A teams. The guy has to have a bit of money.

While the foreclosure rate in Saint Paul continues to skyrocket we are considering subsidizing a millionaire's baseball team with a ballpark? Again, why are we giving million-dollar handouts? Corporate handouts benefit no one but the corporations. When projects like this are subsidized from multiple sources the price ALWAYS incrementally increases from the beginning of the plan to the end. It started out around 20 million...now it's at 50 million.

If Saint Paul decides to chip in to build a ballpark...at least don't make someone in Rochester or Duluth pay for it by taking State bonding dollars. Make it a public good owned by the city solely. Direct from the "Ballpark Fans and Friends" website: "Bonding money does not require the State or the City to raise taxes in order to pay for projects." This is an outright lie as bonding requires repayment of the interest on top of the principle. The money doesn't just show up out of thin air.

On the topic of city involvement: it's a sham that Bill's idea is not, at least, being considered. With the negative feedback he received from some lawmakers (John Lesch) it doesn't surprise me that the powers that be have made this plan in closed meetings.

I like the Saints as much as anyone but let's keep it a privately-owned and operated team that is self-supporting. They do alright as it is and I think they would continue to be in business if we didn't build them a new stadium. Bill's plan would make it affordable for the owner and would make the most efficient use of the space. The owner and city leaders would do well to consider all ideas before pushing through this plan.

Anonymous said...

Ben, You are sprinkling cool water in the faces of some, perhaps they will pay more attention now and when the City and the Saints go back to the legislature next year, if the indeed do not get State funding this year, they will have a broader business plan.

Anonymous said...

To be clear I would like to see the Saints in lowertown, but this isn't the Twins, we need activity downtown/Lowertown every month. Look at the Saints schedule, their season is shy of four months! Yikes. For 54 million the taxpayers need more for their bucks.

Dottie Johnson on Cathedral Hill said...

I read somewhere recently, (can't remember where), that the Blaine Sports Complex is considering expanding its soccer fields. It seems that the velodrome there could be moved to Saint Paul and it would not be missed.
How can Saint Paul not want them to move next to the Saint Paul Saints ballpark in Lowertown? I see fast cyclists everywhere when the weather is nice. Wouldn't they enjoy a year-round indoor track?
Has the City asked them if they would support a velodrome in Lowertown?

Jong Yang-Ellis said...

I live in Anoka, work downtown St. Paul. I think that we should make this ballpark useful. Why? More jobs, more things to do in downtown St. Paul. Miniature golf course, bike racing, how about a batting cage, etc.? This would totally bring more people and revenue to downtown.
Kids love the Children's Museum they would love the Model Railroad Museum downtown as well.

Tom R, St. Paul said...

I'm not the one to seek feedback regarding a ball park.

I believe the government should stay out financing a semi pro team.

Concur that St. Paul is in decline, but the abscence of downtown semi pro ball park is not the reason

Betsy on Grand said...

Our city and state do need to roll on this ballpark/amphitheater issue sooner rather than later. Bill Hosko is a visionary, and we're lucky to have him caring so deeply about our downtown area where he lives and works!
We need to keep St. Paul vital, and this would be a sure way to do exactly that! Lower downtown St. Paul has plenty of restaurants now, and so, next, we need an entertainment area to peak their interest even further! It's not a time to lay back and not act, but rather,the timing is ripe for action! Let's move on this proposal. NOW !!

Betsy Turner

Bill Hosko in downtown said...

Tom R, More than a few people may agree with you. However, being the City is still pursuing public funding for the ballpark I hope you can agree that the public should then be allowed to help decide how those monies are best invested.

Bill Hosko said...

Hello Betsy, Thank you for the accolades. I do want to mention that input from others is what has has made this multi-use concept even stronger. The Velodrome, ice rink, fitness center and Twin Cities Model Railroad are such examples which could find great success here.

Phil Lee said...

In my previous comments pointing out that the city could be more proactive, I do think there's one word I would have used if I were to rewrite it. I would have added that the original plan is FAR better than nothing.

If a person is hungry and has a chance for a gourmet meal that will never come, or a dry cookie, the cookie is better than nothing. Anything I can do to help St. Paul consider this gourmet plan, I will do what I can. If they are willing to upgrade, so much the better. But the Gillette building, as is, is an eye-sore and totally unproductive.

Mayor Coleman, in his comments on the Visitor's Bureau calendar annual report, gave a pitch for his "go big" philosophy. Maybe he should be reminded of that. When I mentioned downtown decline, it is my observation that there are more dark spaces in the sky walks of places that are gone, and another area of concern is Wabasha Street. It has become a corridor for pan-handlers.

Anonymous said...

Saw the post on TwinCities.Com... this is an interesting concept. It is true the Saints play 55 games a year. Lowertown could use more activity than bars and a few restraurants. Farmers' Market is seasonal. Like the Artisan center idea.

Richard in Lowertown

Anonymous said...

We Like this ballpark idea, the 'curtain' would work fine for addressing sun issues during evening games. Having a couple of kids pulling it into place would be fun to watch.

Unknown said...

Cool idea. Just not sure you would want to face 94 and not the river for the outfield.